I guess you completely understand the use of 4 Point System and method of measuring total penalty points per 100 square yards. If you have any doubt and have questions read this post thoroughly and comment on it.
This is a real life case. I have received this issue with some queries and replied him back with appropriate answers. I am not sharing the name of the sender of this mail.
We have a big argument recently with our fabric supplier and we think this is very important point that it has to get through the mind of the people who read about the 4 point system of inspection system in your online studies.
We have problem with the fabric and have stains, red spots, thick yarn and foreign yarn and we have 150 yards of defective cut panels which work out to be 4% of the total quality.
The supplier argues against compensation citing 4% is within tolerance and nobody can raise claim if it is 4% or below. They have referred to your website and asked me study. They also argue that 4 point system is indirectly suggesting that:
1) The fabric cannot have 100% defects free.
2) There is certain percentage of defects we as buyer of fabric should accept.
3) 40 points within an area of 100 yard square is a very valid suggestion that the expert of textile is suggesting to buyer that 4% QUANTITY ARE DEFECTIVE are norm acceptable as tolerance.
Last month I have received one mail with so many questions and queries on 4 Point systems. When I first time wrote an article on 4 Point System, I did not thought that much dip.
This is a real life case. I have received this issue with some queries and replied him back with appropriate answers. I am not sharing the name of the sender of this mail.
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First mail:
We have a big argument recently with our fabric supplier and we think this is very important point that it has to get through the mind of the people who read about the 4 point system of inspection system in your online studies.
We have problem with the fabric and have stains, red spots, thick yarn and foreign yarn and we have 150 yards of defective cut panels which work out to be 4% of the total quality.
The supplier argues against compensation citing 4% is within tolerance and nobody can raise claim if it is 4% or below. They have referred to your website and asked me study. They also argue that 4 point system is indirectly suggesting that:
1) The fabric cannot have 100% defects free.
2) There is certain percentage of defects we as buyer of fabric should accept.
3) 40 points within an area of 100 yard square is a very valid suggestion that the expert of textile is suggesting to buyer that 4% QUANTITY ARE DEFECTIVE are norm acceptable as tolerance.
4) My understanding: 40 points within a 100 square yard and 4% of the whole quantity are not connected at all! They bear no relationship.
I think this is a good point you need to educate them to learn at large the real meaning of the 4 point system. Also what does the formula is actually trying to define.
I look at the formula:
The defect express in penalty points (the longer the defect the heavy the penalty)
The total points x ratio of area (100 yard x fabric width of inch)/ area (length of whole roll x fabric width in inches)
Which mean the bigger the area (the fabric roll is bigger), the penalty point will become more smaller and viz. or in other words, by dividing L 100 yards x w (inches) by that of roll, we are trying to find out how many 100 yard2 are there
There is a norm of 40 the expert use to judge. But why it is 40 and not 35 or 25?
What is the meaning of 40 point? I think it is a value for judging the fabric? But I cannot understand the meaning behind 40. 40 point in 100
I can understand 40 years old is middle age it is easy to understand, if average life expectancy is 80 then 40 is mid life.
Can you enlighten me about this, especially the meaning of the ratio?
I am sure the student can understand much better if can explain in this way rather just a formula.
I had replied him back with following answers and comments.
1) The fabric cannot have 100% defect free.
Answer: This is WRONG. You may get 100% defect free fabric.
2) There are certain percentages of defects we as buyer of fabric should accept.
Answer: This is true. How much defect% to be accepted is solely depends on the contract between buyer and supplier and Term and Conditions during accepting purchase order. You can set your own standard.
3) 40 points within an area of 100 yard square is a very valid suggestion that the expert of textile is suggesting to buyer that 4% QUANTITY ARE DEFECTIVE are norm acceptable as tolerance.
Answer: I don't know where they get 4% reference. I have never mentioned such thing (4%) in my articles.
For audience: Does anyone know about this?
4) My understanding: 40 points within a 100 square yard and 4% of the whole quantity are not connected at all! They bear no relationship.
Prior to commenting on this I like to know what does 4% of whole quantity mean. Is it 4% defective fabric roll out of total rolls or 4% meters defective out of total meters purchased? How they derived 4% quantity?
5) I think this is a good point you need to educate them to learn at large the real meaning of the 4 point system. Also what does the formula is actually trying to define. I look at the formula: The defect express in penalty points (the longer the defect the heavy the penalty)
I think this is a good point you need to educate them to learn at large the real meaning of the 4 point system. Also what does the formula is actually trying to define.
I look at the formula:
The defect express in penalty points (the longer the defect the heavy the penalty)
The total points x ratio of area (100 yard x fabric width of inch)/ area (length of whole roll x fabric width in inches)
Which mean the bigger the area (the fabric roll is bigger), the penalty point will become more smaller and viz. or in other words, by dividing L 100 yards x w (inches) by that of roll, we are trying to find out how many 100 yard2 are there
There is a norm of 40 the expert use to judge. But why it is 40 and not 35 or 25?
What is the meaning of 40 point? I think it is a value for judging the fabric? But I cannot understand the meaning behind 40. 40 point in 100
I can understand 40 years old is middle age it is easy to understand, if average life expectancy is 80 then 40 is mid life.
Can you enlighten me about this, especially the meaning of the ratio?
I am sure the student can understand much better if can explain in this way rather just a formula.
Reply to First mail
I had replied him back with following answers and comments.
1) The fabric cannot have 100% defect free.
Answer: This is WRONG. You may get 100% defect free fabric.
2) There are certain percentages of defects we as buyer of fabric should accept.
Answer: This is true. How much defect% to be accepted is solely depends on the contract between buyer and supplier and Term and Conditions during accepting purchase order. You can set your own standard.
3) 40 points within an area of 100 yard square is a very valid suggestion that the expert of textile is suggesting to buyer that 4% QUANTITY ARE DEFECTIVE are norm acceptable as tolerance.
Answer: I don't know where they get 4% reference. I have never mentioned such thing (4%) in my articles.
For audience: Does anyone know about this?
4) My understanding: 40 points within a 100 square yard and 4% of the whole quantity are not connected at all! They bear no relationship.
Prior to commenting on this I like to know what does 4% of whole quantity mean. Is it 4% defective fabric roll out of total rolls or 4% meters defective out of total meters purchased? How they derived 4% quantity?
5) I think this is a good point you need to educate them to learn at large the real meaning of the 4 point system. Also what does the formula is actually trying to define. I look at the formula: The defect express in penalty points (the longer the defect the heavy the penalty)
Answer: As per theory this is partially true. You can give maximum 4 pints per defects, for a running defects mark 4 points per liner yard.
6) The total points x ratio of area (100 yard x fabric width of inch)/ Area (length of whole roll x fabric width in inches)
This formula is wrong. If you have taken this from my blog, you have misunderstood parameters. Correct formula is
(Total points in roll * 36 * 100) / (Fabric length in yards * Fabric width in inches)
In the above formula 36 is used to convert inches into yards. You need to fill only 3 values as green highlighted above.
7) Which mean the bigger the area (the fabric roll is bigger), the penalty point will become more smaller and viz. or in other words, by dividing L 100 yards x w (inches) by that of roll, we are trying to find out how many 100 yard2 are there
Answer: Follow above formula.
8) There is a norm of 40 the expert use to judge. But why it is 40 and not 35 or 25?
See reply on Question#2
9) What is the meaning of 40 point? I think it is a value for judging the fabric? But I cannot understand the meaning behind 40.
It is a measure of fabric quality and acceptable level of defective fabrics. I think you are not following 4 point inspection system correctly. Please read this post and also see the two documents mentioned at the end of the article (downloadable link).
I can understand if there are holes and other defects here and there and if the qty is not big, we can tolerate that, if 150 yards is quite a big qty to tolerate, don't you think so?
Here (fabric width in yard x fabric length) is the total area of the fabric roll in square yard but (2) why must the point be x 100 and then divide by the total area of the fabric roll? (3) Why must the point be expressed in 100 linear yards? Can you enlighten me as I am no good in Mathematics?
2. Why must the point be expressed in 100 linear yards?
Answer: You can express total point per 100 linear yards or points per 100 square yards. You need to express it this way because the formula says.
3. Why must the point be x 100 and then divide by the total area of the fabric roll?
Answer: Your fabric roll length may be longer or less than 100 yards. Also width of the fabric is not always come as 1 yards. But finally you have to calculate total point per 100 square yards. That is why ‘100’ is multiplied.
You are most welcome to participate to this discussion.
6) The total points x ratio of area (100 yard x fabric width of inch)/ Area (length of whole roll x fabric width in inches)
This formula is wrong. If you have taken this from my blog, you have misunderstood parameters. Correct formula is
(Total points in roll * 36 * 100) / (Fabric length in yards * Fabric width in inches)
In the above formula 36 is used to convert inches into yards. You need to fill only 3 values as green highlighted above.
7) Which mean the bigger the area (the fabric roll is bigger), the penalty point will become more smaller and viz. or in other words, by dividing L 100 yards x w (inches) by that of roll, we are trying to find out how many 100 yard2 are there
Answer: Follow above formula.
8) There is a norm of 40 the expert use to judge. But why it is 40 and not 35 or 25?
See reply on Question#2
9) What is the meaning of 40 point? I think it is a value for judging the fabric? But I cannot understand the meaning behind 40.
It is a measure of fabric quality and acceptable level of defective fabrics. I think you are not following 4 point inspection system correctly. Please read this post and also see the two documents mentioned at the end of the article (downloadable link).
Second mail
1) The 4% tolerance the supplier talked about is 4% of the total yardage purchased, For example if we purchased 3750 yards, the tolerance is 150 yards of defective fabric that they expect no claim if the defective qty is at that level.I can understand if there are holes and other defects here and there and if the qty is not big, we can tolerate that, if 150 yards is quite a big qty to tolerate, don't you think so?
Here (fabric width in yard x fabric length) is the total area of the fabric roll in square yard but (2) why must the point be x 100 and then divide by the total area of the fabric roll? (3) Why must the point be expressed in 100 linear yards? Can you enlighten me as I am no good in Mathematics?
Reply to Second mail
1. I don’t agree with this argument of you supplier. As I have already said 4% tolerance and 4 Point system don’t have any relation. You can come to a solution in future order by having clear and complete agreement on defective fabric tolerance.2. Why must the point be expressed in 100 linear yards?
Answer: You can express total point per 100 linear yards or points per 100 square yards. You need to express it this way because the formula says.
3. Why must the point be x 100 and then divide by the total area of the fabric roll?
Answer: Your fabric roll length may be longer or less than 100 yards. Also width of the fabric is not always come as 1 yards. But finally you have to calculate total point per 100 square yards. That is why ‘100’ is multiplied.
You are most welcome to participate to this discussion.